Today's guest, Heather Hansen is a former trial attorney, speaker, author and host of The Elegant Warrior podcast.
Heather is an expert on how to advocate for your big ideas with two books to her credit: the bestseller The Elegant Warrior: How to Win Life’s Trials Without Losing Yourself, and the upcoming Advocate to Win: 10 Tools to Ask for What You Want and Get It.
As the CEO and founder of Advocate to Win, Heather and has given thousands of clients the knowledge and tools they need to become better advocates and win support, attention, loyalty and engagement for their big ideas.
Welcome to the Destiny Awakening Interviews, a podcast with Andrew Wayfinder and his guests, bringing you powerful insights, inspiration and ways to break free, live life your way and make a difference in our changing and challenging world.
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:17
So hello everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of the Destiny Awakening Interviews. I'm Andrew Wayfinder. And I'm joined today by Heather Hansen, a trial attorney turned business coach, keynote speaker, podcast host and anchor at the Law and Crime network.
And a very warm welcome to you, Heather, where are you hanging out tonight?
Heather Hansen 0:38
I am in Durham, North Carolina, which is a relatively new move to me, but I love it.
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:42
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:43
And so what we want to move on to is Heather's work and Heather's book. Because the reason I wanted to speak with Heather is not just because she's an expert in powerful effective communication after 20 plus years as an award winning trial lawyer. But she's written not one, but two books on the subject.
The first one is her best seller, "The Elegant Warrior: How to Win Life's Trials Without Losing Yourself". And coming out soon is "Advocate To Win: 10 Tools To Ask For What You Want And Get It."
So thank you, Heather, for your time today.
Heather Hansen 1:21
I'm thrilled to be here.
Andrew Hryniewicz 1:23
Great! So the title is "Advocate To Win". And Heather is going to unpack that idea for us in six questions. So the time starts now, you'll have seven to nine minutes.
So the first question is, who is your ideal reader, and what's the transformation, your book will help book or books will help them achieve?
Heather Hansen 1:46
My ideal reader tends to be women, but it's those people who are at a transition in their life. So sometimes it's just beginning their career and wanting to advocate for themselves as they start a new job. Or look for investors for their new company that they're beginning. Or even in their personal life, asking for more support or better boundaries.
And then sometimes it is people who are at a transition in their career, whether that's going back to work after some time at home, or switching from a corporate to entrepreneurship. And the transformation that I hope for them to see is twofold.
I want them to be able to advocate for themselves in their work. But before that, they have to know it. You know, we can't advocate until we believe and so the transformation that I hope is that they know their worth and then they're able to advocate for it effectively.
Andrew Hryniewicz 2:37
Well, that's certainly something I see a lot with my clients. It's mustering up the courage to open your mouth. And say the thing that's on your heart... to your boss, to your partner, to whomever.
So what's the biggest challenge they may face?
Heather Hansen 2:57
Well, I just speak to exactly what you just said, Andrew. I refer to it, and especially in the second book, as your inner jury. And when I tell my clients that we're going to work on the inner jury, they often automatically assume that that's the part of them that's critical, and judgy.
And that's not true. A jury in the courtroom doesn't speak. And a jury is simply there to choose. They choose between two stories, and your inner jury is choosing between two stories. They're choosing between the story of "I shouldn't speak, I'm afraid there's not enough to go around, I'm not going to get it. I'm not good enough."
And the story that "I'm completely capable. I have a lot to offer. This client needs me. I should take this chance. I should go outside of my comfort zone."
And I think the biggest challenge is that sometimes we don't even give voice to that positive attorney who's arguing I am good enough. I have what I need. I'm more than capable.
And so the work that I often do is just simply to give voice so that the inner jury actually has a choice and isn't just hearing the negative.
Andrew Hryniewicz 4:02
Well, and that reminds me actually of one of the things in couples work. There's a sort of rule of thumb that you need to have four or five good memories or good experiences for every bad one.
Heather Hansen 4:15
Andrew Hryniewicz 4:16
Because our brain hangs on to the bad memories, because, you know, those are the ones that are going to kill us. So...
Heather Hansen 4:25
That's right. Yeah, it worked. I love that statistic. They say at work it's three negatives for every positive. And so you've really got to undo it. In marriage, as you said, it's four to five. And so we do tend to hear the negatives more loudly.
And part of what my books do, and a lot of what my coaching, is to be the voice for the other side. And to help the inner jury at least have options.
Andrew Hryniewicz 4:51
Yeah, cool. So just over three minutes, question number three. What's the number one insight you can share to help people right now?
Heather Hansen 5:00
I think that number one insight is, as far as the book is concerned, is that the tools that we use in the courtroom to persuade our juries work outside of the courtroom as well.
So I've mentioned the inner jury, the part of you that chooses, but you also have your juries, no matter what you do. It might be your clients, your customers, your investors. Your students, if you're a teacher. Your patients, if you're a doctor. Your friends, your family.
And so if you look to a trial attorney, and the way that they use evidence and questions and credibility and perspective, you can use those tools as well to persuade your jury and ultimately win.
Andrew Hryniewicz 5:37
What's your favorite tool?
Heather Hansen 5:40
My favorite, and the most imperative, is credibility, because I can't win if the jury doesn't believe. And as I've already noted, I can't advocate until I believe.
So the book goes through each of the tools and first applies it to the inner jury, and then applies it to the outer jury how to build credibility with yourself, and then how to build it with others.
Andrew Hryniewicz 6:03
That reminds me of a salesperson I once trained with who said the four most powerful words you can offer as a salesperson is being able to look at someone in the eye and say, "I can help you."
Heather Hansen 6:19
That's right, as long as they believe that you can help them right. And that's the credibility piece.
Andrew Hryniewicz 6:25
Cool. So four and a half minutes is question number four, what concept book program or talk has been most impactful for you and your experience in your own development?
Heather Hansen 6:39
It's so, I am such a voracious reader, I read a lot. And for my podcast, I make sure that I read the books of every guest that comes on. But I would say, it's a tough question...
I would say that one of the books that I come back to, again and again, and I refer to a lot, and I use some of the exercises in my talks, is "To Sell Is Human" by Daniel Pink.
Daniel Pink is also a reformed lawyer. And I don't know that he ever tried cases, but he has a lawyer's mind. And he talks about how everyone is selling. And I've always thought of part of my job in the courtroom is selling my case to the jury.
And so that's a great book to sort of talk about how you are selling and the way that we've sort of thought of selling as a negative thing.
I'd also just tell your listeners that there is a book club called The Next Big Idea book club, that is books curated by Malcolm Gladwell, Daniel Pink, Adam Grant and Susan Cain. It's fabulous. And so every quarter, they send out two books that they recommend, and then you get to talk about them in a Facebook group and all of that. And so those books, I mean, I could name a lot of them that have impacted my coaching and my in my talks.
Andrew Hryniewicz 7:59
And what about, I don't know, philosophically... not how you operate in the world, which sounds like what these books are about. But have there? Is there anything that's really shifted how you are in the world?
Heather Hansen 8:14
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a big fan of Byron Katie's book, "Loving What Is". I don't know if you're familiar with Byron Katie, she's a phenomenal thought leader. And it's a lot about just questioning your own story. You know, she has what she calls the work with a capital W. And it's four questions. And the first question is simply, is that true?
And I think that we go through our lives, convincing ourselves of things that aren't true, and then sometimes living down to those stories we tell ourselves. And if we can tell ourselves a different story, and allow the inner jury to choose a different story, we can completely change our lives.
Andrew Hryniewicz 8:52
So question number five, what free resource would you like to share with the audience that will help them?
Heather Hansen 9:00
I think that it sort of follows the last the last answer, Byron Katie has a ton of free resources, and access to a lot of her talks on her website, which I think is byronkatie.com.
And the other thing that I would point people to is the TED Talks, you know, online, you can go on to ted.com. And find talks on any host of different topics. And I find that those are often you know, because they're short. And because they're so well curated, you can get some great information there.
And then the last thing I'd say is I'm a huge podcast junkie. And I feel as though if I don't have time to read all the books I want to read, if I listen to the author on a podcast, talk about the book, I often get almost as much as I do from reading the book.
Andrew Hryniewicz 9:49
Yeah, that's one of my hacks. And is there anything you would like to offer from your universe, from your website or anything like that, that's useful?
Heather Hansen 10:00
Yes so, the thing that I'm offering right now is something I'm really excited about, because I put a lot of time and effort into it. If people pre-order my book and the book is available, Advocate To Win is available right now on Amazon. And they email me a copy of their order number or their receipt and email me [email protected]
, I will send them a 10 part course, using each of the steps that are discussed in the book.
It's a $500 value. It's a course that other people have gone through. And I have outrageously good testimonials for that course. It goes through each of the tools and there's videos and workbooks.
It's huge offering. And I the reason I'm so excited about it is I've seen it change people's lives. And so it's a it's a great thing, and all you have to do is buy the book.
Andrew Hryniewicz 10:51
Cool. And question number six, what should I have asked you that I didn't ask you?
Heather Hansen 10:57 Oh, gosh, I mean, there's so many things. Because of this, I would say the question that I most like to answer is why? Why do I do this? Why has this become such a big part of my life?
And the reason is because I was such a good advocate for my clients in the courtroom for 20 years. And I didn't know how to advocate for myself. And as a result, I didn't always set the boundaries that I should set. I didn't always ask for the things the money the raises anything.
And once I learned how to advocate for myself, Andrew, my entire life changed. I became an author, I became a podcast host. I became a TV anchor. I moved to New York City and then I moved to Durham. I mean, everything changed. And so I want that for my readers and my clients and the people in my keynotes.
Andrew Hryniewicz 11:51
That is a beautiful place to stop? So that's perfect, Heather, thank you.
Heather Hansen 11:56
Outro 11:59 Thanks for listening to the Destiny Awakening Interviews. If you have a friend who would benefit please share, and subscribe to the show on iTunes and leave a review. We really appreciate it. And remember, always use your power for good.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai