How do you lead and learn in new situations and changing worlds?
Are your being and doing working together, or apart?
Today's guest, Noa Ronen, is an out of the box executive and leadership coach, author of "BEyond: Leadership from AwareLess to AwareNess", a vlogger, disrupter and coffee lover.
In this episode, Noa talks about creating the changes that matters by using and balancing your 'being' and your 'doing'. And why it is essential to bring both of these elements together to achieve the changes that we want.
Listen to discover Noa's influences and her take on leadership as she shares her story of being a coach in the Israeli Navy, and more.
Check out these episode highlights:
02:18 – Noa's ideal client: “So my ideal clients mostly can be executives, and also social leaders. So for me, I, my passion, is to work with people that look beyond profit."
06:45 – Her client's biggest challenge: “Learning in new situations, like in leadership and change, understanding that the actions that brought us to where we are in some situations or some moments in our life will not serve us anymore. And then we can get stuck if we don't learn how to engage the being and doing.”
08:13 – Noa's #1 insight to help you: "So beyond the being and doing, I have a saying the problem is not the problem. The problem is in the solution."
10:23 – What concept, book, program, or talk impacted you the most: "I love You're in London, and I really love Simon Sinek. It's probably not the first time you hear that answer. He thinks differently. And I like those people that poke that say, but who said we have to do things this way?"
12:19 – Noa's valuable free resource: "First, I have a lot of articles for executives, so you can check that area.... for groups I speak to so there are great resources there about accountability... the Dare model, how you help yourself reflect better. So there are some resources there and even a few free chapters from my book that you can check out...”: https://www.noaronencoaching.com/
14:41 – Noa's last thoughts: "...it's not how you are doing leadership. It's how you are being as a leader. There is no recipe. It's learning about yourself how you find that. That special place in yourself to hold yourself in a way that people trust you. People can feel it when you fake it. "
(Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:04
So hello everyone and a very warm welcome to another edition of the Destiny Awakening interviews. I'm Andrew Wayfinder. And I'm joined today by Noa Ronen. Your out of the box coach, author of BEyond: Leadership from AwareLess to AwareNess, vlogger disrupter and coffee lover.
Noa Ronen 0:24
Yeah. And you said coffee shop conversation, right? Like a. So it's kind of like pull my attention, is it? Yes. And they didn't get my coffee yet. So.
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:34
Noa Ronen 0:35
You get me on pure energy of water.
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:38
Noa Ronen 0:39
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:39
So very warm welcome to you know Noa. Where are you hanging out today?
Noa Ronen 0:43
I am in Raleigh, North Carolina, which is the capital of North Carolina. And my accent is not from there, for sure.
Andrew Hryniewicz 0:51
Yeah, I was gonna say. You know, in the south, they got this thing you're not from around here? Are you?
Noa Ronen 0:56
No. I still don't know how to say that y'all.
Andrew Hryniewicz 1:00
Yeah. Well and did you know that the plural of y'all is all y'all?
Noa Ronen 1:04
No I didn't. Thank you. Yeah. It's probably people can hear English is my second language. So I, everyday I learned a new word, and I'm in the US for 15 years, so.
Andrew Hryniewicz 1:17
Well, and that gets made to your work. Because the reason I wanted to speak with Noa today is not just because of her 20 plus years experience in change and project management, human resources and coaching. But because of her mission, and how she got started.
Her mission is "I help my clients to dare so they can create the change they care about", which is something very close to my heart. And her start was "my first experience as a leadership coach was when I served in the Israeli Navy. I helped officers learn what does it mean to lead by example, and walk their talk."
Thank you Noa for your time today.
Noa Ronen 1:57
Thank you for having me.
Andrew Hryniewicz 1:58
And our title is BEyond Leadership with the emphasis on be. So Noa's going to unpack this idea for us in six questions. So the time starts now. And the first question is, who is your ideal client, and what's the transformation you help them achieve?
Noa Ronen 2:18
So my ideal clients mostly can be executives, and also social leaders. So for me, I my passion, is to work with people that look beyond profit. There is something there beyond. And it doesn't have to be that they work in a nonprofit. But they want to create an impact, and it can be inside a corporate setting, or when they create their own business or leave the company.
So there is always something that goes beyond the profit itself, or the title itself, and the impact they can create in the community, or in the culture that they want to create. So there is a change there. There is always that thing of the change that they want to create. And most of my clients and I always encourage them. They challenge the norms. They will ask the question of why do we need to do it this way. So those are those are my clients.
And you know, when when you want to go through a change, there are lots of challenges there, it brings a lot of stuff. And that stuff's is mostly emotions, and mindset, and limiting thoughts or beliefs and perspectives that can create that disruptions and kind of like, shake you up. And that's where I enjoy to do the work.
And those are the organization I work with. Organizations that all the time have the mentality of the change, or encourage the change. Because they want to create something they care about not just to to disrupt people, you know, kind of like make them feel uncomfortable, but there's something beyond that.
Andrew Hryniewicz 4:13
Okay, so that actually ties. I think you've almost answered question number two, but I'll still ask it. So what is the biggest challenge your clients typically are facing? What was going through the door for you?
Noa Ronen 4:27
Yeah, so I think it relates to the beyond leadership that I'm talking about. And I believe that we have two energies. Kind of like Yin and Yang, the being and the doing. And the doing energy, and by the way, most of my clients and I am to are doers. Like get it done, task oriented. So there is that doing piece of the actions, what it is that they want to do, we all have that energy.
But there is also I believe, another energy which is the being and that's what I talked about. For me, it's a container that consists the emotions and the mindset and the fears and the hopes and aspirations, and beliefs and perspectives. And that's where things get messy.
So in my book, I say, from a well-less to awareness, but in the middle there is the aware-mess. And we need, it's not that the being is better than the doing or the doing is better than the being. It's just paying attention to bring them both so we can create a change. Because if I'm more in my doing, I don't see the change I want. And if I'm more in my being, I don't see the change I want. And mostly I don't see a movement at all. I feel stuck.
And I experienced that when I went through a relocation from a get it done executive, suddenly, I'm in a new country, and I'm trying to bring all the actions that worked really well in Israel, the country I'm originally from. And then I'm in the US, and I'm trying to replicate everything with my actions, and it just doesn't work. And that's what I see many times is that we try to take the actions that work in both as to where we are then especially the doers, and suddenly, it doesn't work.
So just for example, last week, a client told me I'm really good with influencing one on one, but now I'm in a situation, that it's not scalable anymore. I need to learn how to say it in the big room. And mostly, I do recommend to do it one on one when we want to influence ideas, but he just got to a point that it doesn't work anymore, and he needs to bring new skills that he's not used to.
And that's what happens is how we learn to in new situations like in leadership and change, to understand that the actions that brought us to where we are in some situations or some moments in our life will not serve us anymore. And then we can get stuck if we don't learn how to engage the being and doing.
And I was stuck, by the way, Andrew for five years after the move to the US until I figured it out. And it was another long road. But it's you know of understanding and really what was happening to me. But what I did today is are really the learnings from me being stuck in the work I do with people.
Andrew Hryniewicz 7:31
Yeah, I think in many cases, I mean, people, I think we all have our own version of that. That scene in Jaws where they see the shark for the first time and they go, Oh, we're gonna need a bigger boat.
Noa Ronen 7:47
I think I didn't even want to see the shark. It's like the shark doesn't exist. I control the shark. I control the jaws. I control everything.
Andrew Hryniewicz 7:55
Yeah, well, that's human nature. Yeah, we wanted to go past the graveyard hoping nothing's gonna stir.
Noa Ronen 8:01
Andrew Hryniewicz 8:02
Okay, so that I think that ties into we're just over five minutes. Question number three, what's the number one insight you would share with people to help them right now?
Noa Ronen 8:13
So beyond the being and doing, I have a saying the problem is not the problem. The problem is in the solution. Many times people come to me and they say, see my problem is that I need to go in this direction. And they get so stuck with that solution that they don't see anything else.
They believe that this solution is the only way to go. Because they see other people do that. And they get stuck with this solution. So just for example, yesterday, an executive told me I'm too much. I need to learn how to be less too much. And I said, so, let's see how we might be just being stuck right now with a solution that of how to be less too much. Maybe there is a new way to look at this and find a different solution.
And that's why I call myself an out of the box coach. Because when my clients come with that specific solutions, or either or I say, maybe we can put the either or aside and see if there is a third solution or fourth solution and create freedom to create. So ask yourself. Are you stuck with the problem? Or with a solution?
Andrew Hryniewicz 9:31
Yeah. What I often ask in a situation like that, you know, they might have proposed something to me and I sort of say, okay, if x y zed is the answer, what's the question?
Noa Ronen 9:46
That's a good one. Yeah.
Andrew Hryniewicz 9:50
Okay, so great.
Noa Ronen 9:51
Yeah. And it's really limit as well, because we get stuck in how we want to do things from those limitations rather than be free to create what works for us.
Andrew Hryniewicz 10:01
Noa Ronen 10:02
Andrew Hryniewicz 10:03
Yeah I know it's quite quite remarkable the shackles we create in our heads. Yeah, patterns and have no idea they're there.
Noa Ronen 10:12
Andrew Hryniewicz 10:13
So question number four, what concept, book, program or talk has been most influential or impactful for you? Personally?
Noa Ronen 10:23
I love You're in London, and I really love Simon Sinek. It's probably not the first time you hear that answer. He thinks differently. And I like those people that poke that say, but who said we have to do things this way? Of course, many people know his conversation about the why that comes from a place of purpose and really understanding what is the why behind what you do.
I actually really love his idea. I didn't read the book. But the idea about the infinite game that we try to play finite games, which are finals and set with rules in situations that are not finite. I hope I pronounced it right. So actuallyhe has now a lot of interviews about his new book. It's not his idea. It's come from the game theory and philosophy.
And I find it if people who listen to it are executives and lead a lot of changes. It's just a fresh perspective, a different way of looking at any.. I liked what he said, since I wrote a book. You sometimes have like a wish I wrote it differently before I published it. So he kind of like says, I put it as a leadership style and the idea. But actually, I believe it's a mindset.
And I believe a lot of stuff around leadership is mindset. So I loved when he said, I wish I wrote kind of like column himself and say, it's not what I mentioned in the book, it's actually a mindset that you bring into your leadership. So I love that perspective. And I believe he has a lot of information that can be interesting to leaders.
Andrew Hryniewicz 12:08
Okay, great. Definitely mention that in the show note. So question number five, is there a free resource you'd like to share with the audience that could help them?
Noa Ronen 12:19
So on my website, there are two resources that you can check out. First, I have a lot of articles for executives, so you can check that area. And in my speaking area, there are resources for people that... for groups I speak to so there are great resources there about accountability. Many people talk about procrastination, or my model, the Dare model, D-A-R-E, how you help yourself reflect better. So there are some resources there and even I think a few free chapters from my book that you can check out. So just check out that area and help people find value in it.
Andrew Hryniewicz 12:59
Okay, so that's it. noaronencoaching.com.
Noa Ronen 13:03
Yeah. And Noa is N-O-A. There is no h there. So...
Andrew Hryniewicz 13:08
Okay, great. So and the last question, what should I have asked you that I didn't?
Noa Ronen 13:15
I don't know. What would you like to ask me? I'm gonna flick the question.
Andrew Hryniewicz 13:23
Noa Ronen 13:25
I have to break the rules.
Andrew Hryniewicz 13:27
What did you learn as a coach in the Israeli Navy?
Noa Ronen 13:35
That's a good one. I think it's the understanding that if you want your people to follow you, it's not just saying, follow me. You need to create some kind of partnership and relationship with those people. And that they feel that they can trust you when the moment that you need to go to death or living situations that they will want to trust you.
And you need to work on a lot of your being. That they will have that experience because we can smell if you don't feel as a leader or if you you lose your confidence. And many of those officers are young, they're 20. And they lead people that are 18 and 19, and sometimes a year older than them. But there are young people who need to learn how to hold themselves as leaders and make sure that the other people feel that they trust their vision.
And it starts again, with how you holding yourself and how much you believe in your ability to do that. And that's an internal work. It's not just what you say. What I say it's not how you are doing leadership. It's how you are being as a leader. There is no recipe. It's learning about yourself how you find that. That special place in yourself to hold yourself in a way that people trust you. People can feel when you fake it. So that's maybe my underlying. People can smell when you fake it.
Andrew Hryniewicz 15:18
That's a great insight. So thank you, Noa. This has been a great interview and thanks so much for your time.
Noa Ronen 15:25
Thank you. I appreciate you for having me.
Andrew Hryniewicz 15:27
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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For executives, professionals, leaders seeking careers and lives of fulfilment, purpose and impact.
Each week you get a short (7-9 min) chat with an expert in peak performance, optimal health, inner growth and real purpose.
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Andrew Wayfinder is on a mission to make everyone's career and life more fulfilling, rewarding and meaningful in our changing, and challenging world.
Since 2011, he has used his unique background (architect, psycho-therapist, shamanic healer) to help 175+ executives and leaders (in corporate, creative, academic and scientific settings) create lives and careers they love.
Author of Free your Soul, founder of Destiny Awakening and the Wayfinder Path, Andrew has spoken at MindValley U, been on BBC Radio and interviewed in OmYoga Magazine.
Andrew lives in London, UK (where he enjoys cooking, cycling, art museums and galleries) and he works with clients in the US, Europe, UK and Asia.